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jackman
Senior Member
USA
279 Posts |
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AllenF
Advanced Member
USA
502 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2010 : 12:16:00 PM
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Nice write up.
There is no doubt that the new EC has made quality improvements to their product. But these like all things have side effects as well. Added weight and cost being the 2 main points. I also noticed the plywood on the cabover nose. This is something I would like to see go away.
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Allen
2005 EC 1150 slide with custom Norcold 9.5 Cu.Ft. refer, EU 2000i, 12x12 screenroom, Surflo tank, Maxxair 1200T, Charge Wizard, EC #1330
2005 F-350, CC, 6.0L diesel, 4x4, Auto, dually, King Ranch, loaded |
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joec
Founding Member
487 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 3:06:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by AllenF
Nice write up.
There is no doubt that the new EC has made quality improvements to their product. But these like all things have side effects as well. Added weight and cost being the 2 main points. I also noticed the plywood on the cabover nose. This is something I would like to see go away.
Would you like to see MDO or HDO in place of the plywood? Or is there some other thing that needs to be installed. Since cost and weight is a problem? |
2004 EC 950 Slide # 1058
2006 Ford F-350 DRW :)
Co-pilot, Suezie
Side-gunner, Andee, the best dog ever!
New Tail-gunner, Cali |
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admin-Rich
Founder
USA
1804 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 3:53:46 PM
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Except for the weight, plywood would be okay if it were true "Exterior Grade" and not the stuff they often pass off as exterior grade at Home Depot.
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AllenF
Advanced Member
USA
502 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 08:03:36 AM
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joec
There is a reason for EC applying that plywood on the nose area. Since I don't work for them all I can do is speculate. I think it is to stiffen this area to help eliminate flex, acting as a shear panel. It may also be there to stop the fiberglass nose from flexing inward against the foam insulation. I doubt it would help much here but I am not sure. The last idea I have is to give the fiberglass cap something with a large surface area to bond to.
I have read here that EC is looking into a plastic product to replace the plywood that is moisture resistant and lighter than the plywood. I would think this would be a move in the right direction. Since there is not a lot of product used here it cannot add too much to the cost unless this product is crazy expensive.
I noticed in the frame welding photo's that EC has listened and started to weld with more than one weld on the frame pieces. At least in some areas. It is tough to tell from the photos. This to me is another good move as it will reduce the hinge effect that will result in broken welds and frame failure.
As I said above the new EC has made some improvements to their product. Time will tell whether they are paying off. I also noticed that the factory has black top around the buildings now. When I was there during the final days of IMRV it was gravel. It has to be better to work around there now with the elimination of dust and mud.
I also noticed a full factory work load going on. Nice to see that they have work to do and frankly they should be getting all of Arctic Foxes business as that TC is pure garbage. Even in this bad economy with the reduction of competitive brands Ec is staying alive.
Best thing they have done for us here is have Mony answer questions on this forum and shutting Bill N. up. I think salesmen are the worst folks to get technical help from (which is mostly what we are looking for here). I think they do more harm then good. This is one area I just don't get. Companies look for sales at any cost. In my experience salesmen who get lots of initial sales are usually playing all kinds of games to get them and then strut around like a crowing rooster telling the folks above what a great job they are doing. Over time the folks above wise up and smell the coffee. Often too late and the damage is done. The truth about those games that the salesman was playing comes out and in the end it costs the company a lot of business down the road. They have to scramble to try to undo what their wonder salesman has done. Short term gain for long term pain IMO.
What are those games? Typically half truths and some times out right lies. Both to customers and the higher ups within the company. Here is where other employees and sometimes customers will express their concerns and the higher ups should be very keen to listen. At the first sign of this behavior they should let the salesman go as what they have discovered is always just the tip of the iceberg. Salesmen that act like this will never change their behavior hence why they must be let go. Sadly in larger businesses there are mid level bosses that also profit from these salesmen. So it is harder to get rid of them quickly.
Sorry for the off topic comment but it is something I have noticed and feel it should be added to the factory tour/ state of affairs discussion.
One last thing. I too was drawn to the glossy and gleaming white fiberglass exterior. IMO it sets EC apart from most if not all of their competition. However, over time that beautiful white dulls and turns slightly yellow. The only way to avoid this (that I know of) is store it inside or keep it covered. It will still degrade just take a lot longer.
EC if you are listening have you looked into painting your fiberglass white? Using a good truck paint would assure your end user a white long lasting finish. I say end user because as has been so firmly pointed out to me EC's customers are the ones who buy from them, that is the dealers. What we are to EC is mearly the end user.
Painting those end caps and side panels once they have been cleaned up from the mold would be a close break even as to cost. How so? there would be no need to buff them out as the paint would need a bit of roughness to stick to them better. Yes you will have more cost in the paint but in the long run your product would stand out in the market as it would look like new longer and remember fluffy and pretty sells TC's.
If you like this idea as you have with the welding of your frames add it to my account and when I think I will buy another EC TC you can offer me a big discount. No I am not ready yet, and may never be, but who knows over time EC might just implement more of my ideas and I might find it better to buy one from them then build one for myself. Stranger things have happened. |
Allen
2005 EC 1150 slide with custom Norcold 9.5 Cu.Ft. refer, EU 2000i, 12x12 screenroom, Surflo tank, Maxxair 1200T, Charge Wizard, EC #1330
2005 F-350, CC, 6.0L diesel, 4x4, Auto, dually, King Ranch, loaded |
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admin-Rich
Founder
USA
1804 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 09:46:38 AM
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Lets not take this any more off topic, but to address the "salesman" issue:
I use to work as an industrial sales rep selling custom fabrication to the construction, packaging and entertainment industries.
That type of sales is far different than the retail sales you find on the lots of RV dealers. If you only knew, you'd not be so insulting.
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joec
Founding Member
487 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 04:56:23 AM
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WOW, I just asked a question no need to go to this extent Allen. Can we just agree to disagree?
Just as a side note this has been the best camper that I have had or have ever seen. Maybe I just have one that is prefect 
Now back to what is important, my morning coffee and getting ready to travel to the Oregon Outback! |
2004 EC 950 Slide # 1058
2006 Ford F-350 DRW :)
Co-pilot, Suezie
Side-gunner, Andee, the best dog ever!
New Tail-gunner, Cali |
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AllenF
Advanced Member
USA
502 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 10:46:49 AM
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I too worked in outside wholesale sales in two fields. So I too have experience and I spoke to and with that experience in mind.
Taking my salesman comment out, I addressed the question posed and offered other observations that we all are finding out about over time.
Or is my TC the only one that is dulling and yellowing? I know the plastic bits did real fast, hence my solution to paint them white again and this solved that issue . Others here have benefited too from this solution. I think it would work with the rest of the TC as well.
Correct me if I am wrong but is this site here to show where issues are and how to fix them or is it a site to blow smoke up everyone's orifices and sing Kumbaya and eat smores?
While our EC is better than most TC's I think we all here have learned, on our own dime, where the potential and real issues are and how to resolve them. Over time I am sure other issues will pop up like the yellowing and we will work them out as well. That is if we are going to be allowed to by the KUMBAYA singers. I am a realist, and I call them as they are warts along with perfection. I don't need back rubs, just solutions to problems with my TC. While some are happy, and I am happy that they are, many are unaware that events are occurring and they will cost a lot if not caught early. Others hate to have flaws pointed out to them as they don't want to hear about it. To them I can offer to put me on your ignore list. Just remember that I post here for help or to offer real world solutions. If you want smoke, talk to an RV salesman he has this down pat.
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Allen
2005 EC 1150 slide with custom Norcold 9.5 Cu.Ft. refer, EU 2000i, 12x12 screenroom, Surflo tank, Maxxair 1200T, Charge Wizard, EC #1330
2005 F-350, CC, 6.0L diesel, 4x4, Auto, dually, King Ranch, loaded |
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admin-Rich
Founder
USA
1804 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 1:55:48 PM
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There are two photos showing what appears to be luan sheeting on the cabover nose:
and
My guess is that the plywood is needed to perform a small degree of backing for screws from the running lights along with adding rigidity and to the exterior skin.
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Factory tour online
