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Are your fiberglass walls cracking or is your dinette sweep seal tearing??????
#1
NoteTonguelease register and log into website,to be able see photos that are posted:

Newest problem I am having is that the dinette slide rear upper corner wall started cracking in the interior wall and the factory fix was to put a piece of seam tape on the crack to cover it.
That was done.

My objective is it watch and see if the crack reappears thru the tape.

A couple of more camping trips and when the mobile tech came back on Sept 27th to replace the torn sweep seal and to move the dinette slide box forward 3/8" to keep the sweep seal from tearing the tech said you now have a crack in the outside wall upper rear corner of the dinette slide wall.

The camper is now back to Coach Masters in Bend Oregon (Oct 8th) for them to do a fiberglass repair of the wall.
When I showed the owner of Coach Masters, Paul the problem, he said if he repairs the fiberglass the crack will come back as the weight of the camper nose is causing the camper to flex and that part of the wall is the weakest point and therefore cracking.

Coach Masters recommended that they grind out the crack in a vee and put a flexible sealant and then put a piece of body trim over the ground out crack to cover the repair.

After the E.C. factory (Brad) spoke with coach Masters (Paul) they believe that the above repair/patch job is the only thing that can be done for the cracking wall as to be repaired under the 3 year structural warranty.

I expressed to Brad at the factory that my worry was of structural failure concerns and would only allow this repair if this was how the factory wanted to handle this repair. I will post a photo when I get it back from Coach Masters in a day or so.

Coach Masters is also replacing the rear back-up camera as the factory hard wired it to consistent power source(Fan-Tastic Fan) and it is only to be wired to the night marker lights. The camera was powered 24/7 and burned out.

UPDATE: Got the camper back from Coach Masters 10/10/13 and camera replaced and working and exterior wall crack ground out, sealed and body trim applied over the crack ( I will add that photo)

****Other 1165 owners, please keep an eye on your walls and look for cracks as I want to know if it was a one only incident or a problem with design while it is still under warranty.

1) Exterior cracked wall
2) Inside sweep seal torn
3) Patched crack


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#2
I've seen EC forum user posts about exterior cracks like that on the old EC forum.
Those cracks were due to frame failure.
(the owner jackman comes to mind - there were several other owners as well)

I'm surprised that anyone would consider a cosmetic repair as a satisfactory solution to a corner crack like that.
I guess the factory calls the tune when it comes to addressing warranty issues.  I wonder how long they will play around with it?

Found a starting point: http://www.eaglecapowners.com/campfire/t...IC_ID=1117
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#3
The fact that you are seeing cracking at that location does not surprise me.  The design of the 1160 and 1165, on the driver?s side, has no structure to carry the bedroom loads back into the camper shell.  The passenger side has significant wall area with the bathroom wall but the driver?s side has none.  The slideout completely removes all structure.  To transmit the bedroom loads into the camper shell, you need what is called a ?Shear Wall?.  The aluminum frame has no capability to carry these loads.  The fiberglass skin and foam insulation, if properly bonded, would be capable of carrying these loads but the driver side wall does not even have that structure.  The slide, the window aft of the slide, there is nothing left on the driver?s side.  The easiest way to solve the problem is to use struts to support the bedroom load directly to the truck.  But nobody wants that.  The next would be to reduce the size of the slide or move the slide aft and reduce the size of the window.  Then design the frame of the wall as a moment frame structure.  This would require a good understanding of the shear capability of the bonded wall structure and the corner moments.  Problem there is that the RV industry does not have true engineering capability.  They may refer to the ?Engineering Organization?, but that is simply a group of people that know how to use CAD programs.  Then you have the problem of getting the loads from the bed room into the side panel.  This is where the aluminum frame must have the strength necessary to turn the loads around the corner.  Problem there is they are probably using 6061-T6 aluminum for their structure, (they say aerospace grade) material.  It is a very good alloy but when you go to weld it, the strength drops by almost 60%.  Also, you need to know the correct filler material to avoid cracking.  And the joints need to be balanced to get full capability.  Bottom line, this corner is very problematic.  It sees significant load and it is highly cyclic thus fatigue is a very real problem also needing solution.
Ken Dawson
Future owner
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#4
Found another 2013 ser # ECC1165-50137 wall cracking here in Bend Oregon at the dealership (former Eagle Cap Dealership)
Remember they dropped the line earlier this year because of problems with the product and problems dealing with the factory over warranty issues.

I noticed that the crack on this other unit is starting to crack from the inside wall as mine did then it will transfer to the outer wall. Outter wall is cracked also the same area mine cracked.
It did have outside wall cracks!!! See the photo below!
I will post photos later this week of this other unit ...

Photos Posted 11/1/13
My opinion, there may be an inherent problem with camper design and structure!!!!!!!!

Rick


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#5
Rick,

Your dinette slide wiper seal problem is a direct result of the structural failure that the cracking is indicating.  Probably every 1160 and 1165 out there, with any kind of usage, has the same cracking problem.  Wiper seal problems may or may not result depending upon the initial built-in gaps used in the assembly.  Your entire driver side wall has gone from a rectangular shape to a parallelogram shape, pinching the back upper corner and opening the forward upper corner of the slide opening.  I believe this exactly fits your description of the wiper problem.  This is a structural failure!  Whether it is progressive or not is yet to be determined.  The question would be, do the loads that have caused the failure in the wall structure re-distribute into the roof and remaining side wall structure or will the crack continue to grow?  Given the present build, the only way to prevent this, given the existing design, is to use struts on the over-cab like Lance recommends.   

Ken Dawson
Ken Dawson
Future owner
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#6
Ken,
Are you still "a future owner"?
The owners of Coach Masters in Bend Oregon (repair only shop, body work and general repair)said that the cab over struts would be a good option for this problem.

I contacted Brad from the E.C. factory and he said "NO" it would void the structural warranty. Might crack the one piece fiberglass cap.
Is not that a little contradicting as there is already a structural problem as the camper walls are cracking!!!!!

I have about 2 1/2 years left to the structural warranty to monitor the fix that the factory approved and recommended repair to be done, and that was to put a piece of seam tape over the inside wall crack, and for the exterior wall crack, was to have Coach Masters grind out the exterior crack into a "V" and apply flexible sealant and then put a piece of body trim to cover the patch job.

I believe there is still a structural problem as I saw the same issue on another 1165 last week ser # ECC1165-50137
My ser # is ECC1165-50135

Your thoughts???

Rick Christensen
Prineville Oregon
541-598-5455
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#7
Rick,

We need to keep in mind that the work that Coach Masters will be doing is not a structural repair, it is a cosmetic cover up.  It sounds like a good way to seal the crack but it does nothing to correct the structural issue.  It is important that you be able to monitor the crack size, keeping a log on crack length, width and date as well as any additional cracking that may develop.  If it does not grow, then the loads have redistributed and further damage will not be a problem.  As with all structure, when a failure occurs, the loads either redistribute into the remaining structure or the structure continues to degrade.  Aircraft are inspected on an established frequency basis.  They know how fast the cracks will grow and repair on that basis or they know that the crack will self- arrest and they do not need to do anything.  In this case, the future is unknown.  As to the apparent contradiction of solving the problem with cab-over struts and that such a solution would violate the structural warranty, it does make sense.  The front cap is made from blown chopped fiber.  Applying stress risers on the material could result in structural cracking, just like is occurring in the side walls at the cutout for the dinette slide.  Without reinforcement within the cap, the risk exists that failure of the cap at the connection points could occur.  (Dammed if you do, dammed if you don?t).
As to my ?future? ownership, it is very much open to doubt.  The problem is all TC units are designed this way and they all have this failure potential.  I will be following your reporting on this situation, particularly as to if the crack will self-arrest or not.  EC must also address the issue as well.  From the picture that they have posted on the internet of their structure and labeled ?First Class Construction?, it is obvious they have no idea how to design structure.  But this is typical of all of the RV manufacturers.  I find it interesting that all of the manufactures provide large radius corners at the top of their doors but do not do the same for their side outs.  Don?t they realize the issue is the same issue that that had to solve with their doors?  Also, the side panels, are they made using blown chopped fiber or are they glass cloth laminates?  The chopped fiber approach has very little structural load capacity and the glass cloth is dependent for properties upon how the cloth is oriented.  There is a tension load coming back from the nose cap.  This requires some zero/90 cloth plies to carry this load back along the top of the side wall.  You then need +/- 45 degree plies to shear the load into the wall at the corners of the cutouts.  This is where large radius forms, such as is used at the top of the doors would come into play.  There also needs to be sufficient side wall to carry the load to the floor of the camper.  Right now the design has significant stress risers at the sharp corners at the top of the slides and have insufficient side wall to carry the load into the floor.
Ken Dawson
Future owner
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#8
I spoke with Ken Dawson (above posts) this week ( 11/12/13 at 2:54pm) and come to find out he is a licensed/certified mechanical and licensed civil engineer. A lot smarter at this stuff then I am.
He gave me all of his contact information in case I need to contact him for future reference. He is a very nice man and a very smart man to talk with.

He said the problem I am having with the cracking and wall hole closing in on the dinette slide box ( tearing the sweep seal) is a structural failure. ( Like he posted above)

He also said that he was getting ready to retire next year and was going to purchase a new 1165 but will put his purchase on hold until these issues are addressed and fixed, or not buy one at all.
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#9
UPDATE!!!!!!!!
While my camper was at the factory (2nd time) 12/2/13/ to 01/14/14) Bernie agreed that the repair that Coach Masters did for my cracking wall was a "patch Job" and told me they would repair it the correct way while it was there for the tearing dinette sweep seal and other small issues while under warranty.

He stated it would be repaired to the condition it was when I bought it new.
Thank you Bernie (lead tech from the factory.)

The camper is being returned to me tomorrow 1/14/14 by the factory. I will report how the repairs went.

Update: Aug 2014.
After our trip to the Snake River, when I arrived, I took the camper off the truck, leveled it, and guess what???
The crack has returned that Bernie at the factory repaired to "like new" condition. Just what Paul said in the above post. I emailed and spoke with Brad and Dave at the factory and was very upset but the very best they would do, was to approve that I take it back to coach masters in Bend and have them put the "patch" body trim over it to cover it.
That is it!! I have a crack in my wall and will have to live with it!!! Chalet or Host will be my next choice I suppose, when I am in the market for a new camper.
Stay tuned!!!
Rick
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#10
Well,
I had a chance to look things over and it looks repaired and only time will tell after using it a few times.
The factory peeled off the interior wall and then added more support to the wall and floor and then put a new skin on the interior wall.
Repair looks good and factory completed all the other minor repairs.

I had them put the new 2014 theater seating in the rear slide and upgraded the cheesey white plastic medicine cabinet in the dry bath to the new 2014 matching wood with bronze hardware.

Stay tuned as I will be watching for any cracking to reappear and anything else that will go wrong.  I am thinking that the odds are now in our favor, I hope that nothing else will break or go wrong with camper!!!!.

Update: Aug 2014.
After our trip to the Snake River, when I arrived, I took the camper off the truck, leveled it, and guess what???
The crack has returned that Bernie at the factory repaired to "like new" condition.
Just what Paul said in the above post. I emailed and spoke with Brad and Dave at the factory and was very upset but the very best they would do, was to approve that I take it back to coach masters in Bend and have them put the "patch" body trim over it to cover it.
That is it!! I have a crack in my wall and will have to live with it!!! Chalet or Host will be my next choice I suppose, when I am in the market for a new camper.
Stay tuned!!!


Please Please Please let it be fixed!!!
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